((Disclaimer: a lot of the information below was ganked from various websites. None of which were porn. Maybe.))
Okay, so I said before I liked the idea of the twelve signs being aspects derived from the four elements, each being the cardinal, fixed, or mutable aspects... So for review:
1) Cardinal - all about change and movement
2) Fixed - all about stability, determination, dependability
3) Mutable - adaptable
So that kinda sounds like Cardinal = Chaotic, Fixed = Lawful, Mutable = Neutral... So dividing the elements along those lines, the signs come out:
Fire: Aries, Leo, Sagittarius
Earth: Capricorn, Taurus, Virgo
Air: Libra, Aquarius, Gemini
Water: Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces
... I don't like that as a strict rule. I mean, just from certain ideas I'd already come up with for certain signs, e.g. Virgo is described as organized, analytical, and perfectionist, which made me think perfect for detectives, inspectors, etc, and screamed lawful at me anyway. Maybe I can do something like combine the CFM law/chaos association with an inherent association from the elements... But wait, if I look at air, and the inherent traits associated:
Libra - Refined, social, artistic, intellectual
Aquarius - Detached, progressive, humane, intellectual, sympathetic, unpredictable
Gemini - Multi-talented, thinker, talkative, social, needs variety
... If anything there, Libra doesn't seem at all chaotic, and Aquarius' "unpredictable" seems the opposite of lawful.... Okay, I'm gonna toss the CFM thing. It coulda been cool, but it just didn't work out. I actually don't entirely see how they apply the quarternaries, anyway. Probably just typical astrology mumbo-jumbo that they use to supplement and reinforce their BS. Back to just straight-up elemental affiliations.
Now, each of the signs also have masculine/feminine associations:
MAN - Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius, Aquarius
WOMAN - Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn, Pisces
OH HAI ELEMENTS. Apparently, earth and water are feminine, and fire and air are masculine. I actually like that more than the Robert Jordan division of the elements. Though when it comes to perceived genders of the deities, I don't think I'll stick completely to the official traits. I'll more just use it as guidelines. I mean, female bull doesn't make sense. Unless you're into that stuff.
So let's look at the other three elements:
Fire:
Aries - Determined, leader, loyal, opinionated, ambitious
Leo - Original, imposing, inflexible, ambitious, loyal, physical, majestic
Sagittarius - Honest, generous, free, reckless, extroverted
Earth:
Capricorn - Responsible, patient, loyal, ambitious, careful, good judge of character
Taurus - Secure, resolute, faithful, proud, sensual
Virgo - Organized, perfectionist, analytical, OCD
Water:
Cancer - Loving, susceptible, faithful, instinctive, overreactive, moody
Scorpio - Secretive, passionate, insensitive, painstaking, spiritual
Pisces - Loving, sensitive, intuitive, spiritual, idealist
Aaaaaaah information overload. Okay, little by little. And I like how it seems like fire/water are both passionate (respectively male and female, kinda aggression v. love), whereas air/earth seem a little more withdrawn in comparison. Ish. Okay, not necessarily the best idea, but I'll log that aside for now. Another idea that's interesting but I don't want to play with yet, but you know how the classes are generally split among arcane/divine/warrior/rogue? Those kinda, from the descriptions, correspond with air/water/fire/earth. Not entirely, though. Almost wanna switch earth and water there. "Loving assassin" sounds oddly right to me. Plus stable clerics compared to liquid thieves... Anyway.
((FYI - I'll save you a minute - I just looked through all the signs' ruling planets, and compared to the respective Greco-Roman deities. Didn't like where that went. Trashed it. MOVING ON.))
So that's all I'm saying for this post, next (which I'm starting right now anyway) is the 12 signs and my general thoughts/feelings for each one's divine entity.
Friday, February 22, 2013
Wednesday, February 20, 2013
Religious Discussion
So first thing is, if there's some sort of systematic twelve-entity concept off of which these damn cities based themselves and their interrelationships, it's going to be a religion, right?
Now, obviously, the way that the zodiac is used in modern society, everything tends to be portrayed in a positive light. Even the downfalls tend to be portrayed in such a way that, "If you try, you can compensate for it, or even overcome it!" While that's all fine and dandy for motivational purposes, that's not necessarily what I want to use to make a pantheon. I don't like the idea of a stand-alone, pure good pantheon. So let's consider some various options.
First off, I could try that entire thing where I split up the gods a la Dragonlance. Ya know, 6 good, 6 evil. Or 4 good, 4 neutral, 4 evil? Nah, that feels weird. In addition to making myself prejudiced. Though maybe I could play around with astrology concepts? I mean, the signs each have quarternaries, of which there are oddly three: "cardinal", "fixed", and "mutable". Generally speaking, the first is all about change, movement, and energy, the second is about stability and determination, and the third of those can kinda go either way... But that's not really discussing good or evil. That kinda feels like law versus chaos... but still doesn't quite feel right for that as a direct relation. Eh, we can get back to that.
There's also the ever-popular two-aspect deity concept, where every god and goddess has both a light and dark aspect, which can be treated separately. Hmm. That'd sorta force the gods into a less active role in the world. More sort of forces of nature... Do I care? I don't think so. A little part of me does, but that's probably the little part of me that loved Faerun. At the same time, that'd effectively create 24 damn gods. That's a little over the top. Also, new thought, these gods don't really seem like forces of nature. Forces of people, sure, and they represent different aspects of human personality, demeanor, culture... Should I have them as gods that have only existed since humans willed them into existence, then, or should they be more closely linked with some more prima-- IDEA. Something's boiling over in my head. Each of the twelve signs are associated with one of the four Western elements, so maybe something about how actually, each sign is an aspect of that element. More specifically, from what I mentioned earlier, each element has one sign of each quarternary, so that works out.
So okay, I happened upon a new unrelated idea that I kinda like while I was skipping off on a tangent, but to return to the topic before... Actually, that thirteenth sign. Ophiuchus, Serpentarius, the serpent-bearer. It's popular in Japanese astrology nonsense, but most Westerners don't even try to care... But that gives me an idea. Ya know, like the Sovereign Host in Eberron used to number thirteen, but cast down four members, bringing their numbers to nine, with the four joining with two others... But I don't wanna copy that, obviously. But let's look up character traits for Ophiuchus: honest, intellectual, passionate, prone to change, impulsive, clever, glib, creative, given to fame and luck, discards "not useful" friends, tendency to develop secret enemies in inner circles... Wow, that is actually amazingly easy to see as having been betrayed or cast down by the other twelve gods. I figure the Church of the Twelve Signs probably has removed any and all records explicitly referencing Ophiuchus, then, but it's hard to squash rumors, and it's totally fitting to have a cult of the Serpent or whatever. I mean, from their perspective, it was an obvious and horrible betrayal, so why not try to overthrow the unjust 12? Unfair? Something like that. I mean, either it'll just be revenge, or maybe revive Ophiuchus... I'll figure that out later. At the very least, anybody living in one of the cities has had to have heard of the cult.
That's good for now. Wow, typing shit out as I think about it actually helps me come up with ideas. GO FIGURE.
Now, obviously, the way that the zodiac is used in modern society, everything tends to be portrayed in a positive light. Even the downfalls tend to be portrayed in such a way that, "If you try, you can compensate for it, or even overcome it!" While that's all fine and dandy for motivational purposes, that's not necessarily what I want to use to make a pantheon. I don't like the idea of a stand-alone, pure good pantheon. So let's consider some various options.
First off, I could try that entire thing where I split up the gods a la Dragonlance. Ya know, 6 good, 6 evil. Or 4 good, 4 neutral, 4 evil? Nah, that feels weird. In addition to making myself prejudiced. Though maybe I could play around with astrology concepts? I mean, the signs each have quarternaries, of which there are oddly three: "cardinal", "fixed", and "mutable". Generally speaking, the first is all about change, movement, and energy, the second is about stability and determination, and the third of those can kinda go either way... But that's not really discussing good or evil. That kinda feels like law versus chaos... but still doesn't quite feel right for that as a direct relation. Eh, we can get back to that.
There's also the ever-popular two-aspect deity concept, where every god and goddess has both a light and dark aspect, which can be treated separately. Hmm. That'd sorta force the gods into a less active role in the world. More sort of forces of nature... Do I care? I don't think so. A little part of me does, but that's probably the little part of me that loved Faerun. At the same time, that'd effectively create 24 damn gods. That's a little over the top. Also, new thought, these gods don't really seem like forces of nature. Forces of people, sure, and they represent different aspects of human personality, demeanor, culture... Should I have them as gods that have only existed since humans willed them into existence, then, or should they be more closely linked with some more prima-- IDEA. Something's boiling over in my head. Each of the twelve signs are associated with one of the four Western elements, so maybe something about how actually, each sign is an aspect of that element. More specifically, from what I mentioned earlier, each element has one sign of each quarternary, so that works out.
So okay, I happened upon a new unrelated idea that I kinda like while I was skipping off on a tangent, but to return to the topic before... Actually, that thirteenth sign. Ophiuchus, Serpentarius, the serpent-bearer. It's popular in Japanese astrology nonsense, but most Westerners don't even try to care... But that gives me an idea. Ya know, like the Sovereign Host in Eberron used to number thirteen, but cast down four members, bringing their numbers to nine, with the four joining with two others... But I don't wanna copy that, obviously. But let's look up character traits for Ophiuchus: honest, intellectual, passionate, prone to change, impulsive, clever, glib, creative, given to fame and luck, discards "not useful" friends, tendency to develop secret enemies in inner circles... Wow, that is actually amazingly easy to see as having been betrayed or cast down by the other twelve gods. I figure the Church of the Twelve Signs probably has removed any and all records explicitly referencing Ophiuchus, then, but it's hard to squash rumors, and it's totally fitting to have a cult of the Serpent or whatever. I mean, from their perspective, it was an obvious and horrible betrayal, so why not try to overthrow the unjust 12? Unfair? Something like that. I mean, either it'll just be revenge, or maybe revive Ophiuchus... I'll figure that out later. At the very least, anybody living in one of the cities has had to have heard of the cult.
That's good for now. Wow, typing shit out as I think about it actually helps me come up with ideas. GO FIGURE.
That's Right, I'm Doing This.
Wow, I haven't blogged since LJ, and I haven't done that really in a few years.
So for the few people who were involved in Ryan's "Vigilantes" game back when we were in high school, or anyone who knows about that, this is my deciding to take and build upon the campily by-the-seat-of-his-pants Zodiac Cities concept Ryan had tossed out there in the game.
For those of you who don't know, quick recap: we played a game where the PCs were plucky adventurers who, rather than doing lame things like dungeon-crawling, ended up chilling in a city, getting hired by people to do odd jobs that the police didn't want to do, doing things the police weren't technically allowed to do, and occasionally getting blown up by exploding monks. Our party consisted four intrepid heroes: Iverna something, a pious cleric of Pelor who was quite heartily happy-go-lucky, naïve, and usually clueless, with occasional moments of clarity that made her a little dangerous (played by Liz); Draco something, a similarly ditzy monk, who enjoyed executing feats of brilliant agility and nigh inhuman grace that ended in running into a wall (played by Peter); Seebo Nanfoodle Mannoodle Brigadoon Arbydock Mernigmingle (I wish I didn't remember all that name), an incredibly paranoid fallen gnomish noble (GNOBLE) illusionist who virtually treated his covigilantes as villains, considering how often they foiled his carefully constructed schemes; and Loki Serdale, a grumpy, cynical fighter (with mild swashbuckler aesthetic) whose quick wit was only outshone by his quicker hands and overwhelming apathy (played by me).
We had a fun run.
So the point of this is that we started off in what was just called "The City". Not that it was a huge, sprawling metropolis or anything fancy. Nah, we just didn't really care about what the city was - it was a quick, fun, campy game where we fought villains like ThundarLizard. But eventually, when, for example, the inevitable inspector-vs-vigilante conflict was established, it ended up being an inspector from a different city in the kingdom... Kingdom? Republic? Was that ever made clear?
Either way, it was revealed this entire time, we'd been in Taurus City!! The inspector was coming in from, like, Libra city. Made sense, since ya know, the scales, law, balance, LAW, etc. And it was implied that oh, hey, there are twelve cities total in this the ZODIAC KINGDOM (or republic or whatever), but that was pretty much the end of it.
A few months ago, I decided to create a setting that actually dealt with that. Sure, that initial burst of creative energy only lasted about 30 or 40 minutes, but I rediscovered my notes, and I've decided to actually do it.
So for the few people who were involved in Ryan's "Vigilantes" game back when we were in high school, or anyone who knows about that, this is my deciding to take and build upon the campily by-the-seat-of-his-pants Zodiac Cities concept Ryan had tossed out there in the game.
For those of you who don't know, quick recap: we played a game where the PCs were plucky adventurers who, rather than doing lame things like dungeon-crawling, ended up chilling in a city, getting hired by people to do odd jobs that the police didn't want to do, doing things the police weren't technically allowed to do, and occasionally getting blown up by exploding monks. Our party consisted four intrepid heroes: Iverna something, a pious cleric of Pelor who was quite heartily happy-go-lucky, naïve, and usually clueless, with occasional moments of clarity that made her a little dangerous (played by Liz); Draco something, a similarly ditzy monk, who enjoyed executing feats of brilliant agility and nigh inhuman grace that ended in running into a wall (played by Peter); Seebo Nanfoodle Mannoodle Brigadoon Arbydock Mernigmingle (I wish I didn't remember all that name), an incredibly paranoid fallen gnomish noble (GNOBLE) illusionist who virtually treated his covigilantes as villains, considering how often they foiled his carefully constructed schemes; and Loki Serdale, a grumpy, cynical fighter (with mild swashbuckler aesthetic) whose quick wit was only outshone by his quicker hands and overwhelming apathy (played by me).
We had a fun run.
So the point of this is that we started off in what was just called "The City". Not that it was a huge, sprawling metropolis or anything fancy. Nah, we just didn't really care about what the city was - it was a quick, fun, campy game where we fought villains like ThundarLizard. But eventually, when, for example, the inevitable inspector-vs-vigilante conflict was established, it ended up being an inspector from a different city in the kingdom... Kingdom? Republic? Was that ever made clear?
Either way, it was revealed this entire time, we'd been in Taurus City!! The inspector was coming in from, like, Libra city. Made sense, since ya know, the scales, law, balance, LAW, etc. And it was implied that oh, hey, there are twelve cities total in this the ZODIAC KINGDOM (or republic or whatever), but that was pretty much the end of it.
A few months ago, I decided to create a setting that actually dealt with that. Sure, that initial burst of creative energy only lasted about 30 or 40 minutes, but I rediscovered my notes, and I've decided to actually do it.
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